Hi guys,

I had posted a question about making the jump to a miniDV camcorder after the death of my Video8 camcorder and I was going to take Rich's advice to make the change now. But after some thought, I decided to stick it out with 8mm and go on to D8 with a purchase of the TRV 480.

In order to keep from getting trapped with an archive of 8mm tapes, I intend to make copies to miniDV for archiving as Rich suggested and then reuse the 8mm tape (erasing the footage). Now, I know Hi8/D8 tapes are recommended. But I also have a big stock of Video8 tapes. As I will not use them for archiving, but simply for transfer to miniDV, I thought I might use each Video8 tape a few times before chucking them.

Anyone have info on the use of Video8 tapes in D8 camcorders? Are there any quality problems? Does anyone have experience in the reuse of Video8 or Hi8 tapes?

Best regards,
Silverrope

Silverrope, I'm not sure what Video8 tapes really are. I assume they are what are called 8mm here in the US. They are a different composition than Hi8 but my TRV460 manual says the unit will play back 8mm, Hi8 and Digital8. Digital8 and Hi8 are actually the same from my understanding.


Rich

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Yes, standard 8mm tapes was what I meant by "Video8". I just downloaded today the TRV460 manual and I saw that standard 8mm can be used. This is reassuring. But in scanning this forum, I think DaveC has often mentioned to avoid using standard 8mm tapes in D8 camcorders because they could eventually fail. Possibly true and standard tapes should probably not be used for archiving. But since all my future recordings will be copied onto miniDV and archived there, I was wondering about recording (and rerecording) on a standard 8mm tape as a temporary medium. Could I reuse a tape 2 times or maybe 50 times before I have to worry about dropouts, quality, etc.? Just wanted to know about people's experiences with rerecording on tape in a D8.

Best regards,
Silverrope

I've never really re-used 8mm, Hi8 or Digital8 tapes so I don't know how well they stand up.


Rich

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Yes, Video8 is the official brand name of the standard low-band 8mm analog video format, prior to Hi8.
Video8 tapes use regular oxyde while Hi8 and D8 tapes are "Evaporated Metal" type.
You can record D8 on a Video8 cassette but not in LP mode. Only in SP. That's OK.
I've recycled a couple of Video8 tapes for Digital8 recordings without any problem, besides occasional dropouts due to wrinkles in used tape.

Be careful : Rewind completely. Make sure you record in D8 from the very first centimeter of tape, if not, when you rewind for playback, your TRV480 will detect the former Video8 signal and switch to the analog reading mode. (the "D8=>8" display will appear and you'll have to advance the tape a little, eject the cassette, then reinsert it, so that it starts on the D8 signal).

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- Pete

I don't think I ever warned against using Video8 tapes in D8 camcorders? I haven't used any because I bought 200 Hi8, MP tapes for $2.50 each so I have no reason to use the less robust Video8 tapes. Like Pete said, they can only be used at the SP speed, which is good. I usually warn against using Hi8 tapes at the LP speed.I agree with eveything Pete said except the above quote. Most Hi8 tapes and all D8 tapes are MP (Metal Particle) tapes. There are a few Hi8 Evaporated Metal tapes around but they provide no benefit in digital camcorders and they cost at least double what a MP tape costs. They do provide a better signal to noise ratio than MP tapes when used in analog camcorders. But that benefit doesn't carry over to digital recorders. Most Hi8 tapes use Metal Particle oxide like the Video8 tapes do but it is more robust. It is also more rugged than the Evaporated metal oxide so it will take more abuse than ME tape will.

I am not a fan of reusing video tape but that is a different discussion. I would just archive the Video8 tape in addition to making a digital dub of it over to MiniDV.

Dave

Ah, but that is just the discussion I would like to see! Pete mentioned a potential pitfall in reusing tape, i.e., wrinkles or physical damage. As I intend to reuse them a minimum number of times possible and then throw them away, I hope to avoid that. Dave, as you are not a fan of reusing tape, I guess you must know about other pitfalls?

By the way, Pete, I have a stock of blank Video8 tapes so fortunately I won't have to worry about the analogue signal. Thanks for your advice.

Best regards,
Silverrope

Well....you are using a marginal oxide to start with. Why push your luck? Use it once and store it (instead of throwing it away). You must have an application that takes 100 times the amount video tape as what the average person uses?

Every time I erase something, I regret it a little later. It just seems like false economy to me? You never will have another tape that is as good as your original master tape.

Dave

Well, just seeing how much I could push it. I am really a normal type of camcorder user. If needed, I could keep two archives (D8 and miniDV), but it seems a bit of a waste. I thought the digital copy to miniDV would be just as a good as the original on D8 which is why I would reuse the 8mm tapes. Are the miniDV digital copies not as good as the original? If they are not, then I think I better rethink all this again...

Thanks for all the info.

Best regards,
Silverrope

The data with MiniDV copies are as good as the orginal MiniDV tape. The data on a MiniDV tape copied from a Digital8 tape is going to be exactly the same data. The same as it is on floppy disks CD, DVD or Zip drive. It all works great until the actual media goes bad.

I'm not sure what your point is.


Rich

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Ok, thanks, that's what I thought. Dave had said that, "You never will have another tape that is as good as your original master tape." The master will be on D8 and the copy will be on MiniDV. But since the MiniDV copy is as good as the D8 master, I will be erasing the master, keeping the MiniDV, and reusing the 8mm tape.

I guess it will be matter of experimentation to see how well the tapes hold up to reuse.

Thanks again,
Silverrope

Dave is correct as far as analog video such as on Video8/8mm format. And if that analog tape is digitized there can be a difference in video quality as analog to digital conversion (A/D) is not perfect and different A/D systems can be different. But once digitized it is just data which has no losses when transferred.


Rich

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What I was getting at is that things can always go bad in a copy process. Unless you check 100% of your copy, you don't know if your new copy is good? Chances are that it is good but you know for sure that your original master tape is good. I have been burned enough in the past 50 years and believe what you want to do will probably work but isn't worth my time or yours. If you were trying to reuse high quality, high priced tapes then I could see it. But reusing Video8 tape is risky and not worth taking a chance on losing priceless video.

But it is your video so have at it. I wouldn't do it. I save all my master tapes and will continue to do so.

Dave

I agree with you Dave. There is a risk which is why I posted the question to find out people's experiences. Well, I will probably end up buying new D8 blanks anyway!

Thanks,
Silverrope

Ok, I must admit to some confusion about this thread. I already knew that a D8 tape copied to MiniDV tape would be an exact copy. I also knew that the reverse would be true too. But a regular 8mm tape is capable of recording D8? Isn't a 8mm tape constructed for an analog signal? How can this be the equal of a digital tape? Doesn't the reuse of an analog tape degrade the tape which each re-recording?

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